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Not Gordon Ramsey kitchen nightmare but mine!

Discussion in 'The Pit Stop - General Paint Trade Discussion.' started by Gazza, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. Gazza

    Gazza PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    Did a handpainted kitchen about 2 months ago and had a text last weekend with a few photos that say we have issues. The paint is coming off she says.
    Been on site today and she right in places paint can be removed with fingernail.

    The Callerton kitchen was originally factory finished in a mid grey. On initial site visit I tried to call the company to find out what they painted there kitchen with but they didn't get to me after a few attempts.
    I decide to play it safe and use an adhesion primer and decided to use the eico icon grepp after finding out it could be tinted to nearer the dark grey finish colour.

    After the standard clean down with virosol and being rinsed off twice, sanded and filled, applied the primer, light sand and 2 coats of scuffx eggshell in a dark grey. Refit all hinges, handles etc and rehung all doors and everything looks and feel solid even after bumping the doors about a little when rehanging, nothing marked or scratched as though everything was curing and drying as it should.

    On return today, more or less every door edge I can lift paint with fingernail, a few of the doors have been scratched on the rails, its a shaker style kitchen, paint can be scrapped with fingernail again. Everything seems really soft?
    She wanted a couple of doors making good for Xmas, so I sanded with 180 abranet and cleared the scuffx and primer in no time but also the factory coating and back to the original factory primer? I then gave them a coat of Blockade, cause that's what I had, then 3 coats of scuff x.

    It was weird how easy it was to sand it back, nothing had adhered well and it seem that the factory coated came of easily too, like the grepp primer had softened the factory coating. After sorting those couple of doors and getting home, I had another photo from her saying some water had spilt on another door next to the one I had redone, she went to wipe it with a cloth and the paint had come off with it! And photo suggest that. Anyone had issue with similar problems or any suggestions?
    --
    Sorry for the long post above!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2020
    Sprayandrun likes this.
  2. ajmdecorators

    ajmdecorators PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    I have just had exactly the same issue mate! What primer was used originally?
     
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  3. Sprayandrun

    Sprayandrun PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    I do have a theory as mentioned before
    That although a paint may be tested in country of origin against their primers etc it may not be against our primer & paints and react different.
    No scientific background but have thought it alot.
     
    andyfloss likes this.
  4. Gazza

    Gazza PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    Do you mean the factory primer? If so, no idea. The adhesion primer i used was Eico grepp. What have you had to do to rectify? What primer did you go with mate?
     
  5. barry

    barry PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    @Gazza @ajmdecorators .... a very quick read of their (Eico)....web site and their primer’s TDS i would suggest they could be held liable as they are saying “ok to use any paint over” etc etc. The only care note is the one about not to use in direct sunlight or on warm surfaces .... which is not an issue here.
     
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  6. Marylee

    Marylee PPS Tradesman

    That’s so upsetting when you know you did a good job!
     
  7. Gazza

    Gazza PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    Tell me about it, plus you don't get paid for putting it right!
     
    Marylee likes this.
  8. andyfloss

    andyfloss PPS Craftsman

    @Gazza , @ajmdecorators

    Dare i say this!!! Is there any part of the kitchen that you haven't painted, something out of sight or not accessible? Perhaps you could do a test piece with grepp primer and check the original coating?
    It's a suggestion, something you may have already thought of or you're very thorough and painted absolutely everything.
     
    barry, Gazza, greenbank and 1 other person like this.
  9. Tomcio

    Tomcio Brush Navigator Bar Member

    Sorry to read about this @Gazza.
    It reminds me when I discovered that moist microfiber cloth, left for just few minutes on the Scuffx film that was painted over HH that was painted over BIN, made all BM very easy to scratch off back to BIN...
     
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  10. RonyT

    RonyT PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    @Gazza. Firstly, and I think I speak for all on PPS, don't apologise for a lengthy post. We are here to help each other out.
    Secondly.... what a fooking nightmare for you mate ! It's that sinking feeling knowing you did everything right but a product has let you down and undeservedly so.

    Eico was a problem I had a while ago (I'll find the link) but it was with a top coat. It was the first and last time I will use the paint.
    Weird as I heard the same manufacturer makes tik stuff. :dunno:. I can't confirm that per se.

    Why did you use Grepp out of interest ?
     
  11. crj

    crj PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    Sounds a right mare mate. Especially when you're tying to wind down for Christmas. Sorry can't offer any advice.
     
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  12. Gazza

    Gazza PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    Used the grepp mainly because its tintable and it was recommended by my supplier as an alternative to stix which as we know isn't tintable. Also to save on a coat of finish.
     
    RonyT likes this.
  13. greenbank

    greenbank PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    Sorry to hear about this mate and I hope you can get it sorted quick.
     
    Gazza likes this.
  14. Gazza

    Gazza PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    This kitchen was doors only as the carcasses etc were finished oak or ash, there is a utility room with same units and original finish which I haven't done. I'm not sure i understand your point, are you saying, give an original door and coat of grepp to see if it keys properly?
     
  15. ajmdecorators

    ajmdecorators PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    I went over the kitchen with high hide mate, it was a howdens kitchen. Seems the high hide didn’t bond to the 2 pack paint that was on originally. Complete f***ing nightmare, going to be working for free for 8-10 days I think to put it right
     
    Tomcio likes this.
  16. greenbank

    greenbank PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    This could be your way of establishing exactly where the problem lies @Gazza, and also having evidence if it is the Grepp
     
  17. Gazza

    Gazza PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    The grepp initially appeared to key very well, as the doors were sanded before I put the 1st coat of Scuffx on, whether there is a compatibility issue between grepp and scuffx, eico tech team say not, but who knows. Eico tech team have requested photos and full spec of works carried out.
    —-
    Which adhesion primer are you going to use next time mate?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2021
  18. ajmdecorators

    ajmdecorators PPS Master Craftsman Bar Member

    Stix I think, I have abit left over from a job so going to give it a try on a door and make sure it’s bonded before I redo it all again :thumbsdown:
     
  19. andyfloss

    andyfloss PPS Craftsman

    It may show at which stage softening occurred. If you coated up a test piece with grepp (from same tin, if poss) and left it for period of time,then checked for softness before overcoating. Put your top coats on leave, then check again. Surely this may give you some idea of the nightmare. When you painted kitchen, I presume grepp was overcoated quite soon.
    Use another cleaning product/solution on test piece.
    Do you know product home owner uses to clean kitchen with? I have known of some products, even water burn through water borne coatings without showing on face of coating, before they have fully hardened (5 weeks min). I advise not to clean wb coating for at least 5 weeks unless absolutely necessary.
    I hope you can get some financial return, from the coating failure, i feel your pain. absolute 'mare @Gazza.
     
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  20. freshwater

    freshwater PPS Time Served

    Have done a couple of those Howdens kitchens and used Isofix.
    Been back working in a house where I did one over a year ago and it's solid.
     

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