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Little Knights gloss

Discussion in 'Caring for the Environment' started by greenpainting, Feb 7, 2021.

  1. greenpainting

    greenpainting Jolly Green Giant Bar Member

    OK so I have some samples from Little Knights to try and I wanted to look at the gloss first because finding a real eco friendly gloss is really difficult. Looking at their web pages they have some good credentials and have even defended (successfully) their claim of zero VOC when they were accused by a certain other manufacturer of false advertising.

    The marketting is a bit curious because when you look at the products, the gloss comes under their wall paint section even though it says it's for wood. Odd.

    I had a long conversation last week with the company MD who is actually the tech expert and he told me a lot about what they do. The ingredients seem to be a close guarded secret but what he did say is the paints are made with natural ingredients as much as possible but in order to get a paint to perform and not degrade, it is necessary to use synthetic elements sometimes. However, the claim is that, once in the water system the paints are broken down into harmless component parts. In other words you don't need to dump paint at the landfill, or wory about separating the solids to chucl them away. It all goes down the sink safely.

    They also have a claim that their paint will absorb and neutralise formaldehyde. If that's true it's certainly a plus point. The anti microbial they use is a non toxic chemical with a similar structure to honey. Obviously a totally natural paint without additives can be subject to decomposition over time so some protection against that is required.

    All the products are non toxic in use and after use. And if there is any doubt to the company ethics, the MD recently purchased a large area of woodland to preserve as a nature reserve. The issues I have with some manufacturers is they try to sell us 'green' paints simply because it's a trendy market. Little Knights seem to be coming at it from the right direction though so I am happy to spend time checking out their stuff.

    The price falls pretty much in line with premium trade paints but they only keep the costs there by selling direct to the end users - if they pushed it out through retail outlets the additional margins the retailers demand would make the stuff too expensive.

    Ok so on to the performance of the gloss. They say the paint has obsolutely no odour. I would dispute that, if you hold the tin right under your nose you can smell the paint. Having said that, it's a pleasant aroma and when you're working with the paint you don't smell it so yes it is pretty much odourless if you don't stick your nose right in it.

    I thought it looked a bit thick in the tin but after a quick stir it looked about right and I wanted to try it first without any thinning. I think it might level a little better with a drop of water next time but as it is, straight from the pot, it flowed nicely and levelled off pretty well. It does need laying off properly (but quickly) to avoid marks and for anyone who struggles with brush marks in water based, this might be a challenge.

    Recoat time is pretty fast, I left it over night simply because I put the first coat on late in the evening. But #i think a recoat will be possible well within 2 hours. The test was done on a new bit of skirting that was primed with a couple of coats of BIN, just because I had a tin handy and couldn't find the Bedec!

    And talking of undercoats, apparently the solid content is high in this but the first coat going over BIN (bin from a tin seems to dry off white) I was a bit unsure of the opacity but when it dried it looked ok. Second coat covered easily. But I'm not sure how it would manage if existing paintwork was just sanded and cleaned. I will be happier using an undercoat first but over 123 or BIN it still means a pretty fast turnaround.

    The finish is as good as any other w/b gloss I've used. I want to put some on a vertical doorframe somewhere and see how thick I can get it on before it runs. Floating on a flat piece is not really a good test in that respect.

    Before the top coat I sanded and the paint was already pretty tough. I'll give it a week and then drop a few things on it to see how tough it really is so watch this space.

    lk_gl_2.jpg LK_Glosstin.jpg
    RonyT, mistcoat, Marylee and 14 others like this.
  2. Wayners

    Wayners I Taut I Taw A Puddy Tat Bar Member

    I missed this post...

    Study it tomorrow.

    Just had a customer who was not happy with the smell of.. Wait for it..... Dulux diamond matt :blush:
    Tbh it went on a treat so that was a surprise but one coat over itself in elderflower tea. I was thinking next time maybe an Eco paint like BM but here is another option...
    greenpainting likes this.
  3. greenpainting

    greenpainting Jolly Green Giant Bar Member

    @Wayners I'm doing a kitchen for my sister in a couple of weeks and persuaded her to let me try the Little Knights on the walls. I'm going with the eggshell as it's a kitchen. I've had the eggshell sample and put a bit on a wall at home and it's quite a low sheen so the matt(e) must be very flat! The emulsion does feel really silky to apply though - one of those paints you put on the wall and smile because it goes on so nicely. And I am going to line the kitchen before I put this on so that should be a joy to work with.
    Bobbones and Wayners like this.
  4. Marylee

    Marylee PPS Tradesman

    That was really interesting and I haven’t heard anything about them at all. Am going to send for some colours. Thank You for sharing it.
  5. greenpainting

    greenpainting Jolly Green Giant Bar Member

    @Marylee I hadn't heard of them either. I spend a lot of time trawling the net trying to find these small companies and this was by chance. They have a great brand look, very clean. The only downside to smaller manufacturers is the limited colours they can make available. I think these guys have 40 but they are rather tasty. Obviously developing a big range (and especially custom mix) is a very expensive undertaking. So selling this brand will be a case of selling the health benefits first and then selecting from colours available. Not a bad thing - sometimes you can give people too much choice.
    mistcoat, Marylee and greenbank like this.
  6. Marylee

    Marylee PPS Tradesman

    I think more and more homeowners will begin seeking out ‘healthier’ options. Perhaps more rapidly than before, after the last 12 months!

    I’m looking forward to receiving their colour palette.

    I just picked up a 24 colour palette from Claybrook Colour.
    They have some lovely dark, sludgy greens and deep blues.

    They say ‘our eco-concious paint is vegan friendly, non-toxic + virtually no odour, low VOC’s, excellent opacity + coverage + environmentally friendly throughout production. Made in England.’

    only available in two interior finishes -
    matt emulsion - sheen 3-5% - coverage per coat - 14sqm
    eggshell - sheen 20% - coverage - 14sqm
  7. greenpainting

    greenpainting Jolly Green Giant Bar Member

    I'll have a look at those, wood finishes seem to be harder to find but its always good to have a coice of emulsions
  8. greenpainting

    greenpainting Jolly Green Giant Bar Member

    I'll just add a litte here about the silk product. Again they list this as a wall paint but I wanted to see what it did on wood because they also say it can be used there. Well, it looks ok, it goes on nicely but I had to thin it a bit to get it to level properly. It might have been the thinning but the end result is more what I would consider eggshell - still quite nice but certainly not silk or satin. As a bathroom wall aint it would probably be very good, on wood I think it might be a bit fragile.
    ahenrypd likes this.
  9. Marylee

    Marylee PPS Tradesman

    Claybrook Colour Eggshell says

    ‘,,exceptional wash resistance. Used for walls or woodwork, particularly good for hallways, bathrooms or kitchens.’
  10. will

    will PPS Tradesman

    The rise of "the ethical plant based consumer" is no bad thing,i feel our industry will come under the spotlight for its environmental and sustainable practices (or lack of)..could it see a big change in the coming years to materials we use?..I for one hope so..thank you both for keeping all informed about what is out there...will
  11. Marylee

    Marylee PPS Tradesman

    I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but if we start a list like this -
    then none of us will have to start from scratch if we are ever asked,,,
    greenpainting and will like this.
  12. ryu

    ryu PPS Tradesman

    interesting brand, seems to take a pop at natural paints and mould growth.
    iam big on healthier paints and have been for years.
    can keim be beaten on healthy emulsion interior and exterior??
    will likes this.
  13. Marylee

    Marylee PPS Tradesman

    See - there’s another one new to me, I am embarrassed to say and it’s so long established!

    Wouldn’t it be good to have a spread sheet with brands and products & their features that we could just keep adding to. An at a glance guide. Who does what.

    Thank You for that one too!
    will likes this.
  14. Marylee

    Marylee PPS Tradesman

    This just dropped in my inbox today.
    “,,,the most certified sustainable paint company in the world.” 96357DB0-9EA8-49C9-B441-8AE7DA175CC4.jpeg
  15. ryu

    ryu PPS Tradesman

    ive used alot of this stuff, its great gear. they do a mineral contact called nevada. ive just sprayed a new build out in it. its very nice.
    the graf clean masonry come bathroom come wood work paint is brilliant aswell..
  16. Marylee

    Marylee PPS Tradesman

    Thank You - that’s so interesting to hear. I always wonder if all these new ranges live up to the hype? But I do like the idea of independents with niche offerings.
    Like boutique Gin!

    I have their palette but have never used it yet.
  17. greenpainting

    greenpainting Jolly Green Giant Bar Member

    @Marylee I am wary of Graphenstone. Firstly when I had a conversation with them about their use of plastic tubs their justification was that they can be recycled. Well yes they can but why not use recycled plastic to begin with if you are preaching sustainability. The other issue I have is their manufacturing process that seems to be carbon intensive so even if they end up with a non-toxic, healthy product, it would appear to have a large carbon footprint. I got the distinct impression they are chasing the green pound and I need a lot of convincing before I will use them.
    It's true but a valid point. If you make a paint entirely from natural ingredients it isn't going to perform the way it needs to. Finding eco paints that are also suitable for professional use means a few compromises now and then. Little Knights are open in their use of small amounts of synthetic chemicals but those chemicals are inert and the paint breaks down into harmless components.

    Keim, like a few others, claim to have eco paints that are very low VOC but they are still acrylic based paints which means they are reliant on the petro-chemical industry. They can be considered non toxic but they are not sustainable in real terms.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2021
    bagshot and ryu like this.
  18. Marylee

    Marylee PPS Tradesman

    But then what are we to make of these eco-awarding bodies who boost companies credit in the eyes of the customer? See above, the Graphenstone own quote,

    ‘World’s most certified green brand’

    What does that actually mean?

    How then are homeowners and we, meant to plough through and make sense of all these contradictions in the different approaches without having a pretty deep grounding in the subject?

    Can you direct to any eco-accreditation body you would trust to do their research?
    ahenrypd likes this.
  19. ryu

    ryu PPS Tradesman

    Paint companies are good at pulling the wool over the buyers eyes.
  20. greenpainting

    greenpainting Jolly Green Giant Bar Member

    @Marylee I cant point you to any body I would trust. Unfortunately this is just down to us searching and researching the genuine manufacturers and then evaluating the products. It feels like a very uphill struggle and I get very frustrated when I read articles listing so called eco paints when a lot are simply acrylics with low VOC.

    There's two parts to it as far as I am concerned. Firstly the product needs to be healthy in use so it doesn't harm the end user. And secondly it needs to be a sustainable product that doesn't do more harm to the planet either in resource, manufacture or disposal.

    Put those two together and there are so few paints available that it makes me feel like giving up and doing something else sometimes. For now we have to go with compromises and either use non eco paints where there are none available for problem solving, or turn down those jobs where they would be required. I do cherry pick jobs more than I used to but if I refused to handle any work that didn't allow me to use my chosen paints I probably wouldn't sustain myself.
    ryu likes this.

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